DELPHI, Ind. — It's been over seven years since the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were found near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Richard Allen, the man accused of killing the two teenagers, will stand trial for the 10th day Tuesday.
The trial began Friday, Oct. 18.
Sixteen Allen County residents were selected to serve on the jury. Twelve of those people (eight women and four men) began the trial as jurors with four (two men and two women) serving as alternates.
From opening statements to verdict, 13News will be at the Carroll County courthouse every day of the trial to explain what happened inside the courtroom.
Follow along with the latest updates from Tuesday below:
(WARNING: Some of the testimony described in this story may be disturbing to some readers.)
Day 10 summary
The jury heard from Richard Allen on Tuesday, first in two videos of police interrogations before his arrest. Then, they heard testimony from a prison warden and prison guards about what they say Allen said to them.
Jurors saw a very different Richard Allen on video from two years ago than the man sitting in the courtroom on trial.
In the first video, a much heavier Richard Allen with a beard remains calm with investigators say they want to search his phone, car and house. Allen told police: "Your attitude toward me has definitely changed. This feels like you're interrogating me...you've known from the beginning I was out there. I told you that."
Then Delphi Police Department Chief Steven Mullin replied: "We're not mad at you. We're not upset with you. We're just trying to get to the truth."
Allen continued to deny involvement, and told police, "Arrest me or take me home."
A few hours later, investigators served a search warrant on Allen's home.
Two weeks later, Allen continued to maintain his innocence when questioned by state police Lt. Jerry Holeman. In that video, the jury saw Allen deny more than a dozen times that he had anything to do with the murders.
In one exchange, Lt. Holeman tells Allen: "This is your opportunity." Allen replies: "Will you please stop giving me opportunities. I didn't kill two little girls."
Lt. Holeman replied, "What did you do?" Allen responded, "I went for a walk on the trial and went home."
Kathy Allen was brought in the interrogation room at one point with her husband, visibly upset.
Allen tells his wife, "You know this is something I couldn't do." Kathy Allen asks him, "How did a bullet from your gun get out there?" Allen tells her, "I don't know."
When Allen stuck to his story, and refused to confess, the exchange with Holeman got heated. Holeman told Allen, "You're (expletive) guilty and I'm going to prove it." Soon after, Richard Allen is in handcuffs.
Afternoon testimony focused on confessions Allen allegedly made to prison guards who were stationed outside his cell while he was on suicide watch.
Former Westville Correctional Facility Warden John Galipeau testified Allen sent a request asking to speak to him. Galipeau said the form read: "I'm ready to officially for to confess to killing Abby and Libby. I hope I get the opportunity to tell their families I'm sorry."
Galipeau also testified that Allen told him he killed the girls with a box cutter that he threw away in a dumpster at CVS.
The jury also heard from eight prison guards who interacted with Allen and wrote down his statements and behavior.
Officer John Miller testified Allen told him, "I got what I deserved for what I did and I hope I burn in hell for what I did."
Officer Raymond Smith testified to Allen talking to himself in the middle of the night, saying one time, "Kathy, I did it. I'm guilty. Run, Kathy, run. I did it."
The defense pushed back on the testimony, asking the warden and guards about Allen's mental state at the time of the confessions, painting a picture for the jury of conditions inside the maximum security prison that drove Richard Allen to serious mental health problems, including behaviors like drinking out of the toilet in his cell and eating his own feces.
It was a long day for the jury. Testimony didn't wrap up until around 6:30 p.m. That's the longest we've seen court proceedings go in the trial. There's no word on what is on tap for Wednesday, but we know at some point the state plans to play those taped phone calls Allen made to his family from prison, calls in which they say he confessed.
State plays recording of Indiana State Police interview with Richard Allen on Oct. 13, 2022
9:20 a.m. - The state started the 10th day of the trial by playing a recording of ISP Officer Steve Mullin and current Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett interviewing Richard Allen on Oct. 13, 2022.
"You can leave anytime you want," Mullin says at the start of the interview.
"We just want to figure out what you saw when you were out there," Liggett says.
The two officers review what Allen reportedly told DNR Officer Dan Dulin during an interview in February 2017.
Allen gave the officers his name, age, address and phone number. This recording is the first time in the trial Richard Allen's voice has been heard.
Allen and the officers go through his background from high school onward. They discuss that Allen had a heart attack in 2010 and needed a couple of stents. He tells police he has depression, anxiety, high blood pressure and cholesterol. They also discuss Allen's employment history.
Then, the conversation turns to Feb. 13, 2017.
Allen says he spent the morning in Peru with his mom. Allen says it was a warm day, so he stopped by his house to get a jacket and then went out on the trails. He tells the police he does that about once a month.
Allen tells police he went to the Monon High Bridge and looked at fish "because I like fishing."
Police asked Allen where he parked, but he has a hard time describing where he parked that day.
"The bridge side of things," Allen says.
Mullin has Allen mark the spot on a map. Allen marks to places, saying, "either there or there."
Mullin asks Allen how he drove there.
Allen says he doesn't know the road names, he just knows how to get there.
Mullin asks Allen, "How did you give your first statement?"
Allen says, "They were taking information from people who were there." He tells the officers he had told his wife he had been on the trail. Allen tells them he spoke with a DNR officer. Allen tells Mullin and Liggett he met Dulin in a Sav-a-Lot parking lot.
"I've thought about it a lot as time goes on," Allen says.
Allen tells the officers he arrived around noon and walked around before leaving at 1 p.m. or 1:30 p.m. Allen tells the officers he saw three girls near the trailhead, who he described as looking like sisters.
"Then, I didn't really see anybody," Allen says.
Allen said he sat on a bench to look over the creek for a while at one point. Allen says he saw cars parked at the Mears entrance. Allen says he used to park there. He says one time, in 2006, he did a cleanup with Lafayette Walmart employees as a community project.
"There were no vehicles where I parked," Allen says.
When asked about a specific lot by the officers, Allen says, "If that's where I told (Dulin) I parked, that's probably where I parked."
Mullin asks Allen how far out onto the Monon High Bridge Allen went that day.
Allen says he want to the first platform that stuck out to look at fish. Allen says he had crossed the bridge years ago before it got "so rough."
Allen says he hit an SUV when he fell asleep in Peru and lost the car.
"That's why I bought that black car," Allen says. This is in reference to his 2016 Ford Focus.
Allen says his wife drove it mostly, but he would drive it when he needed to. He says it had good fuel economy.
Allen says he took the black car to visit his mom in Peru that day.
Allen says one of the three girls he saw that day was older than the other two.
"I didn't really interact with them," Allen says. He says he didn't remember seeing anyone else on the trail that day.
Allen says when he got back to his car, there weren't any other cars in the lot. He tells police he spent part of the walk checking a stock ticker.
"Trying to get rich," Allen says. "That was like a hobby for me."
Liggett asks Allen what he was wearing that day. Allen says he had on jeans and a jacket. He says it probably would have been black and hooded at that time. Allen says he always kept a skullcap hat in his coat pocket.
Police ask what shoes Allen was wearing, and he says tennis shoes or military boots.
Police ask how long Allen had his current phone, and Allen says not a long time.
Mullin asks to examine Allen's phone to check his information.
Allen asks how long they would have his phone.
Mullin said they'd ideally like to get the phone he had that day.
Police ask Allen to remember what phone he had in 2017. Allen says, "If we have it, (my wife) will know."
Mullin says, "We can start with this one, if that's alright with you."
Mullin reads Allen his rights before a search. When it comes time to put in a passcode, Allen says it "sounds like I'm going to be somebody's fall guy."
Mullin says, "We're trying to eliminate people from the investigation."
Allen says, "I don't want to be somebody's fall guy. Please don't think I'm questioning your integrity. From this conversation, it's like you think I did it."
Mullin says, "With your permission, we'd like to look at your house."
"You'd need a warrant," Allen says. "I'm not going to let anyone go through my house."
Liggett says, "We're back at the start and talking to everyone. It's nothing more than that. There's no fall guy."
Allen says he won't let them look through his house but agrees to let them look through his phone.
"Let me talk to my wife," Allen says. "We don't want to be associated with it."
"Am I an angel of a person?" Allen asks. "No. I don't want you looking at every website I've looked into."
At one point, Allen says, "I know you want closure for the family, but..."
Liggett says, "Your original statement said you were there from 1:30 to 3:30. I don't want you to think we're not just randomly coming after you."
Allen says he wasn't at the trail that late.
Allen says, "We're here because you're still looking. I'm not going to turn into that guy. I don't want to be the target of something. I've watch 'Dateline,' other shows. I'm not an idiot."
"We're not trying to put anybody in a box," Mullin says.
"I don't have anything to do with this," Allen says.
Mullin says it's important for them to look at his car. Mullin and Liggett tell Allen this is about eliminating people from a refreshed investigation.
Allen says, "I don't want anyone to know I talked to you guys."
Mullin assures Allen the officers won't randomly share that they talked with people to the public.
Mullin says they had talked to his wife. He tells Allen they knew he'd talked about wanting to hurt himself with his gun.
Mullin shows him a picture of "bridge guy."
"The question needs to be, is that you?" Mullin asked.
"I wouldn't know those girls," Allen says.
Liggett says "bridge guy" looks like he's wearing what Allen told police he was wearing.
"We just need to know what happened," Liggett says.
Allen says blue jeans and Carhartt jackets are common.
Mullin says, "We have a lot of information."
Allen says, "We sat down here. We're having a conversation."
Mullin says they "don't think you're a malicious guy." He asks Allen to help them understand.
Allen says, "Things seem to have taken a turn. I feel like I'm being interrogated."
Allen says, "I came forward with what I knew."
Mullin says, "I'm not here to give you a hard time. We're to get the truth."
Mullin continues, "I have more questions. But I think we're done here."
Liggett says, "People saw you."
Mullin says, "Is that person you? That's the question we haven't answered."
Allen says, "I don't appreciate you trying to talk me into this."
Mullin starts going over the clothing description again.
"Never mind," Allen says. "This is ridiculous."
Mullin says Allen either went to "do this to the girls," or he was there when someone else did it.
Allen says, "You're trying to make me say I killed those girls."
"We're done here," Allen says. "Arrest me or take me home. I'm done."
"I'm not going to talk anymore," Allen says. "You're really pissing me off. Am I free to leave?"
Mullin says "You've always been free to leave."
"Thanks," Allen says. "You're an a*****e."
State plays recording of Indiana State Police interrogation of Richard Allen from Oct. 26, 2022
11:11 a.m. - The state plays a recording of Indiana State Police Officer Jerry Holeman interrogating Richard Allen on Oct. 26, 2022.
Holeman tells Allen they found guns and knives at his home. He asks Allen if he had guns or knives with him on the trail on Feb. 13, 2017.
Allen says, "No."
"Let's get to the meat and potatoes of this, Rick," Holeman says. He tells Allen they matched the extraction marks on the cartridge found at the scene to Allen's gun.
Allen crosses his arms.
Holeman tells Allen he's on Allen's side. He says, "You've already started here. There's no backing out. The damage is done." Holeman tells Allen he doesn't think Allen should be the "fall guy," but that there are experts who say Allen is the guy in the video.
Allen says he doesn't even know how his bullet would have gotten "out there" if it's his bullet.
"There's no way," Allen says. "There's not. I don't know how the round got there. It's not my round."
"The media is going to portray you as a monster," Holeman says. "There's only one way to get out of this, and that's to tell the truth. What happened that day? Are you the mastermind? The truth will set you free."
"That's what I would have thought," Allen says.
"Then tell the truth," Holeman says. "Why did you say 'it's over' during the search warrant?"
"You've talked to people I worked with. You've talked to my neighbors," Allen says. He says he has anxiety and he was stressed.
"The evidence shows you're involved," Holeman says.
"There's no way a round from my gun was anywhere near the girls, the bridge," Allen says. "You're trying to say I murdered two girls. I'm done. The damage is done. Just do what you're going to do."
"I don't think you're the one who killed them," Holeman says. "Are you?"
"Anyone who knows me knows I could never do anything like that," Allen says. " I did not murder two little girls. You're trying to convince me to confess to something I didn't do."
"The science doesn't lie," Holeman says.
"It didn't come out of my gun," Allen says. "It didn't come out of my gun. I can't explain it. It didn't come out of my gun."
Holeman says the evidence points to him and that people said they saw him there.
"I'm trying to help you," Holeman says. He then goes to get a technician to swab Allen's mouth for a DNA sample.
"The ball's in your court," Holeman says. "I'm trying to help you. Why does all this evidence point to you?"
"I can't tell you," Allen says.
"We have five witnesses that put you out there on the bridge with the girls," Holeman says.
"It didn't happen," Allen says. "They didn't see me around the girls because I wasn't around them. I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do."
"There's nothing you're going to have to implicate me because I wasn't out there," Allen says. "My cartridge, gun was not there."
"You're wrong," Holeman says.
"What was my involvement?" Allen asks.
"You tell me," Holeman says.
"I don't know how I'm supposed to act like this never happened," Allen says.
"This is the day. This is the time," Holeman says. "This is the time to get out in front of this. You made a mistake."
"I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do," Allen says. "I'm done. If you're going to arrest me, arrest me. I'm done. I'm not talking anymore. This is ridiculous."
"I think nothing you have is going to show me around the murders of two little girls," Allen says. "I'm not going to do this."
Holeman says for Allen to sit tight. Then, he explains how the ISP lab tied the cartridge at the scene to his gun.
Allen says there's "no way a bullet from my gun was found at a murder scene."
Holeman tells him scientists say it is.
"And I'm telling you it didn't happen," Allen says. "I didn't shoot anyone. I've never even pointed a gun at someone. I wasn't there."
"You said you were there," Holeman says.
Allen says he was at the trails, not the murder scene.
"I'm done talking," Allen says. "Arrest me if you're going to arrest me. I'm not going to sit here and tell you I did something I didn't do. The very day they said they wanted to talk to people there that day, I came in."
"You don't believe the evidence?" Holeman asks.
"I don't," Allen says. "I didn't do it. I'm not going to sit here all day. I didn't do it. You obviously think I did."
"I'm not going to tell you I did something I didn't do," Allen says. "I'm not going to tell you I had something to do with this. Arrest me."
"Sad you're doing this," Holeman says.
Holeman tells Allen he lied to his wife for years. He says Allen's depression got worse.
"Mine would too," Holeman says. "If I killed two girls."
Holeman says, "We know you have anger issues and depression."
Holeman puts forward the theory that Allen was there and the girls made him angry.
"This is your opportunity," Holeman says.
Allen asks him to please stop giving him opportunities. "I didn't kill two little girls," Allen says.
"What did you do," Holeman asks.
"I went for a walk on the trail," Allen says. "And I went home."
Holeman asks, "Do you know Ron Logan?"
"Not that I know of," Allen says.
"The evidence doesn't lie," Holeman says.
"I'm trying to help you," Holeman says. "If you don't want me to help you, I won't."
"Do you believe in science?" Holeman asks.
"I believe in science," Allen says. "That bullet did not come from my gun if it was found at the murder scene or on the bridge."
"I'm telling you any round involved in this did not come from my gone," Allen says.
"I'm telling you you're wrong," Holeman says.
Allen says he carries a gun when fishing or mushroom hunting. "You realize mushrooms don't grow that early," Allen says.
"It is your round," Holeman says. "You can't deny that."
"I didn't have my gun that day," Allen says.
Holeman asks Allen what he wants Holeman to tell the prosecutor.
Allen says, "I want you to tell him whatever you want to tell him."
"I'm not lying to you," Holeman says. "Everything I'm telling you is facts. I'm not trying to trick you. I'm not making this up."
Allen says he has told them multiple times it didn't happen.
"I can't lie to you and say this round is yours," Holeman says.
"Not my gun, not my bullet, didn't happen," Allen says.
Holeman walks through the lab results again. "I can't make that up," Holeman says. "I'm not lying to you. That's unethical. This is a certified official document."
"I got all this evidence we can present to a jury of your peers," Holeman says.
"I can't explain to you something I don't understand," Allen says.
"I wish you could," Holeman says.
Holeman leaves the room. At this point, Allen has been in interrogation for an hour. He slumps his head, looking dejected. Allen gets up and goes to the restroom.
When the interrogation resumes, Holeman says, "I don't think you're a bad person."
"What kind of person kills two people?" Allen asks.
"Good people make bad decisions all the time," Holeman says.
"I can't tell you something I don't know," Allen says. " I didn't murder two girls. I didn't help someone murder two girls. I can't explain something I don't know."
"We'll figure it out," Holeman says, before leaving the room.
Then Allen's wife, Kathy, enters the room, and they embrace.
Allen tells Kathy the police have been telling him Kathy believes he did it.
"I can't explain something I don't understand," Allen tells Kathy. "It didn't happen. They really believe I did this."
"I'm not going to say something that's not true," Allen says. "It's not possible a bullet from my gun ended up at a murder scene. I didn't kill anyone. I didn't help somebody kill anyone."
Kathy asks Allen how the bullet got there. It is hard to understand her because she is crying.
"This is what I do know," Allen says. "No bullet from my gun is involved in a murder in any way, shape or form."
Kathy says the police told her that they have witnesses who saw Allen at the scene and know it is him.
"I love you baby," Allen says, before kissing Kathy. "They're not going to get away with this. I'm not going to say something I didn't know. I know you know I would never do this."
"They're going to do what they're going to do," Allen says. He tells Kathy he's sorry she has to go through this.
"They want me to tell them I did it," Allen says. "I don't care what they do to me. I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do."
Kathy asks Allen questions, but they aren't understandable over her crying.
"I can't explain something I have no answer for," Allen says.
He tells Kathy the police want her to tell him she thinks he did it. He says he knows she knows he didn't. Allen says Kathy knows him too well.
Holeman then walks in the room. "Now you're going to drag your wife and daughter through this because you're too (expletive) bullheaded to get out ahead of this," Holeman says.
Allen and Holeman then swear at each other. Allen vehemently denies involvement in front of his wife. He asks if his wife can leave.
"You can't get past this," Holeman says.
Kathy and Allen hug and kiss, and then, she leaves.
"You're going to pay for what you've done to my wife," Allen says to Holeman. "You want to f*** with me, f*** with me. But you leave my wife out of this. Leave me out of this."
Holeman then screams and swears at Allen. Holeman shouts that Allen murdered the girls.
"If you're going to arrest me, arrest me," Allen says.
"Happy to," Holeman says.
State's 29th witness, John Galipeau, former warden at Westville Correctional Facility
1:45 p.m. - The state's 29th witness is John Galipeau, the former warden of the Westville Correctional Facility where Allen was held in protective custody.
Galipeau testified that Allen was held in a standard 12' by 8' cell. Galipeau said Allen was in an observation cell under suicide watch.
Galipeau said Allen showered three times a week and had three sets of clothing. Galipeau said Allen had access to a tablet to listen to music and order commissary. Galipeau also discussed Allen's rec time and medical attention.
Galipeau said Allen got two face-to-face visits with family.
Galipeau said that when Allen got legal mail, he started acting irrational. Galipeau said Allen would tear up the mail, wash his face in the toilet, defecate in his cell.
Galipeau said he saw Allen regularly.
"Sometimes he would confess to what he did," Galipeau said. "At least twice in person."
Galipeau said Allen also requested an interview to confess.
At this point, the jury was shown a letter from March 5, 2023 that read "I am ready to officially confess to killing Abby and Libby."
According to Galipeau, Allen said he used to work at CVS and disposed of a box cutter used to kill the girls in a dumpster.
2 p.m. - Defense attorney Brad Rozzi began the cross examination.
"Buck stops with you," Rozzi said.
"I hope so," Galipeau said.
Rozzi said the maximum security prison held the worst of the worst, people convicted of murder and rape.
Rozzi described the area where Allen was held as a "prison within a prison" known as "the hole."
Rozzi said that prisoners in suicide watch cells were normally there for just a short time.
Galipeau said yes, and that the only difference in those cells were the bed and the camera. The bed was bolted down a couple of inches from the floor.
Rozzi asked if Allen was the only inmate Galipeau was aware of being held in solitary, suicide watch for more than a year.
Galipeau said he never knew of any safekeeping inmate being placed in this pod before. He said there is no privacy in the cells, the camera is always on and so are the lights.
"Richard Allen for 13 months was isolated," Galipeau said. With no physical or social interactions.
Rozzi said the general population inmates socialize and eat together and move around their dorm freely. But not Allen.
Rozzi pointed out the many rec areas on a map of Westville and asked Galipeau if Allen used them. Galipeau said no to all of them.
Rozzi said the only rec area Allen could use was a 10 to 15' area with 5 walls and a fence over the top. He called it a "cage."
Rozzi said Allen's recreational time was reduced and Allen was clothed in a kimono gown under 24/7 observation.
Galipeau said yes.
Rozzi said that when an inmate is on suicide watch, he is under tighter restrictions. Galipeau said yes.
Rozzi said that Allen was in handcuffs, leg shackles and had a transportation lead with hands in boxes.
Galipeau called the leads a "dog leash."
Galipeau said Allen was treated better than other inmates.
Rozzi asked if Allen's defense team was allowed to bring in their phones.
The state objected on relevance grounds. Rozzi said it was relevant to showing Allen's conditions. Gull sided with the state and sustained the objection.
Rozzi asked if there was ever a time that Allen posed a threat to anyone.
Galipeau said Allen wouldn't move his hands out of the hole in the cell door.
Rozzi said, "So you zapped him with electricity?"
Galipeau said doors need to be secured.
Rozzi then asked about suicide companions. He asked if some had been convicted of dishonesty.
Galipeau said yes.
Rozzi asked if the suicide companions violated the rules and talked to Allen.
Galipeau said yes. He said he did switch them when Allen got legal mail.
Rozzi asked if Galipeau knew what was in the legal mail.
Galipeau said no.
Rozzi asked if there was any documentation of Allen's alleged confessions. He asked if the jury was just supposed to take Galipeau's word.
Galipeau said yes.
Rozzi said that Allen's psychiatrist, Dr. Waller, was in a better position than Galipeau to make conclusions about Richard Allen's mental health.
Galipeau agreed.
Rozzi said that after 13 months, Allen was moved to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility in December 2023.
Galipeau said he didn't know why Allen moved to Wabash Valley.
Rozzi asked if prison can be really hard on someone.
Galipeau said, "It's an adjustment."
Rozzi said especially on mental health.
Galipeau said yes.
Rozzi asked if Galipeau worked at the prison anymore.
Galipeau said, "No, got let go."
The state objected, saying that was outside the scope of re-direct. Rozzi said Galipeau had reason to misrepresent because he violated safety responsibility. Judge Gull sided with the state and sustained the objection.
Galipeau was the center of an ethics investigation over misuse of state property. He had to admit to wrongdoing and pay a $2,700 fine.
In re-direct, Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland asked Galipeau why Allen was on suicide watch.
Galipeau said he didn't know, he was just following an order from Allen's healthcare provider.
State's 30th witness, Ethan Drang, a Westville correctional officer
2:49 p.m. - The state's 30th witness is Ethan Drang, a correctional officer at Westville Correctional Facility, where Allen was held for 13 months.
Drang said he was on watch duty for Allen when he was put on suicide watch. He said he kept a log of Allen during the day, every 15 minutes.
Log sheets from Drang's time watching Allen were entered as evidence.
A log sheet from April 5, 2023 reads as follows:
- 8:46 a.m. - I think coming to prison cured my depression and anxiety. Helped him find Bible/god.
- 9:52 a.m. - Slipped envelope under door. Said he wanted to confess to killing Abby & Libby & apologize to families.
McLeland asked if there was any training for Drang to tell when an inmate was faking a mental illness.
Drang said no.
McLeland asked if Allen had any mental health triggers.
Drang said when he would get on the phone with his wife.
Rozzi said, "So something as subtle as walking in and out of the cell was enough to trigger Allen?"
Drang said yes.
On the top right corner of the note, it says "3-5-23 Galipeau." But according to Drang's log, he didn't receive the note from Allen until April 5, 2023.
State's 31st witness, Michael Clemons, a Westville correctional officer
3:07 p.m. - The state's 31st witness is Michael Clemons, a correctional officer who served as a suicide watch companion for Allen.
Notes from Clemons' log were entered in as evidence. The notes from April 7, 2023 read as follows:
- 7:30 a.m. "Offender says 'God I'm so glad no one gave up on me after I killed Abby & Libby'"
- 8:01 a.m. "Offender says 'I, Richard Matthew Allen, killed Abby & Libby by myself. No one helped me."
- 8:_ a.m. "Offender says 'I'm not crazy. I'm just acting like I'm crazy."
Clemons said Allen started acting different while at Westville but couldn't say how.
3:17 p.m. - Defense attorney Brad Rozzi performed the redirect with Clemons.
Rozzi asked Clemons if Allen said how he killed (the girls). Clemons said no.
Rozzi said at one point Allen was referring to God. He then showed Clemons' deposition. It referred to the "I'm not crazy. I'm just acting like I'm crazy." In the deposition, Clemons said Allen made the remark to inmates who were harassing Allen. They referred to Allen as a baby killer. Rozzi said that part wasn't in Clemons' log notes.
Clemons said he assumed Allen did not have a mental health issue.
Rozzi asked Clemons if he ever saw Allen banging his head or eating feces in his cell.
Clemons said no.
McLeland asked if Clemons thought Allen's behavior change was genuine.
Clemons said no. Clemons said Allen's behavior went back and forth from acting normal to acting crazy.
Rozzi asked if maybe Allen just "lost it."
Clemons said maybe.
Rozzi said prison can get to an inmate.
Clemons said yes.
Rozzi said, "You said you thought he was not crazy, mentally ill?"
Clemons said yes.
Rozzi asked if Clemons knew Allen was diagnosed with a mental health code, would that change his mind.
Clemons said yes it would.
State's 32nd witness, Michael Roberts, a Westville correctional officer
3:43 p.m. - Defense attorney Brad Rozzi performed the cross examination.
Rozzi asked if Allen was concerned about his family. Roberts said yes, and that Allen started acting up when his lawyers came.
Rozzi asked if Roberts had any formal mental health training. Roberts said only what the state provided.
Rozzi asked if Roberts kept detailed logs. Roberts said yes.
Rozzi said that Allen started smearing feces all over his cell. Roberts said yes.
Rozzi asked if Roberts called Allen a "pain in the butt." Roberts said Allen made more work.
Rozzi said it's two different things, smearing feces and eating them. He asked Roberts if Allen ate the feces, would that change Roberts' mind about Allen's mental health. Roberts said he would have to observe it himself.
Rozzi asked if inmates yelled names at Allen. If they called Allen a "baby killer" and told him to kill himself. Roberts said yes.
Rozzi said Allen put feces on his face for two hours. Roberts said yes and that he told mental health right away but did not react to it.
Rozzi asked how long someone had to sit with feces on their face for Roberts to consider them crazy?
Rozzi also asked if Allen asked Roberts to read Allen his last rites. Roberts said yes.
Roberts remembers Allen hit his head on the wall for a long time. He said Allen's face was black and blue.
Rozzi said Allen refused food for a long time. Roberts said yes.
Rozzi said that companions were going back to the general population and spreading information about Allen "like wildfire."
Roberts said yes.
Rozzi asked if Allen accepted what happened to him. Roberts said yes.
Rozzi brought up more sections from Roberts' logs.
One excerpt read as follows:
- 1:15 - Ran in place naked. "I will never again smoke in my life." "God I'm sorry I'm wasting your time." "I'll never cheat on my wife again." Rolling on the ground.
Another excerpt read as follows:
- April 13, 8:45 - "I swear I never cheated on the cigarette."
3:30 p.m. - The state's 32nd witness is Westville correctional officer Michael Roberts. Roberts was assigned as a suicide companion for Allen and logged his activities in real time.
A section from Roberts log was entered as evidence. It is marked April 7, 2023 and reads as follows:
- 12:34 p.m. - Dear Lord, forgive me for molesting Abby, Libby and Chris. Dear Lord, forgive me for molesting Abby, Libby, Kevin & and Chris. I want to confess. I know a lot more.
A note marked April 13, 2023 reads as follows:
- 8:15 a.m. - What more do I got to do?
A note marked April 23, 2023 reads as follows:
- 2:00 p.m. - I killed Abby & Libby. My wife wasn't involved. I want to confess.
A note marked April 26, 2023 reads as follows:
- Can I talk? Can you listen I killed Abby & Libby? How do I prove I'm insane?
A note marked June 18, 2023 read as follows:
- 3:30 p.m. - Why are you doing this? Do you know God? Do you know why I'm here? I killed Abby and Libby.
A note marked June 21, 2023 read as follows:
- Do I make you mad? Did I tell you about my wife? I killed Abby and Libby.
Roberts said Allen was normal, coherent and talkative - if a little scared - when he arrived at Westville. Roberts said after a few months, Allen's behavior changed. Roberts said Allen made it seem like he couldn't hear you and couldn't talk.
Roberts said he saw signs, "outrageous things to make you gasp" of misbehavior and get attention when watching. Roberts said Allen was more acting up than having mental health issues.
Roberts said when Allen talked to the chaplain, he talked about his family.
State's 33rd witness, James Early, a Westville correctional officer
The state's 33rd witness, Westville correctional officer James Early, read from log sheets he wrote down in real time, sitting outside Allen's cell as a suicide companion, where he writes down what Allen does and says.
Among the log sheets to which Early testified:
-April 8, 2023, 4:33 p.m. - Allen is pacing in his cell and says, "I'm ready to confess. I swear to God I killed Abby and Libby," followed by an expletive.
-May 1, 2023, 8:50 a.m. - "Can I confess to the warden and Dr. Wala?"
(no time noted) - Allen told the guard he was already dead and was pacing and muttering.
10:15 a.m. - Tells guard he was being stabbed.
10:30 a.m. - Allen is asleep.
Allen's attorneys cross-examined Early, asking if he was aware Allen had already written to the warden. Early answered, "No."
The defense then asked the officer if he described Allen as looking like "a deer in headlights when he first walked in." Early answered yes.
Early testified about Allen's behavior changing over time, including drinking out of his toilet, rolling his own feces into balls and lining them up and also covering himself in feces.
By August 2023, Early said Allen became "fairly docile."
On redirect, Early testified Allen's behavior "seems orchestrated," that he would be fine, then all of a sudden would become dead weight and start drooling on himself.
Early says before Allen drank toilet water, he took a breath like he was about to jump in cold water.
Asked on cross-examination if Early was aware of Allen banging his head, the officer said, "Not on my shift."
The defense asked if Early was aware of Allen defecating in his hands and smearing it. "I watched it. It's not the first time I've seen that," the officer replied.
Early then testified that prisoners sometimes eat their own feces because "it draws attention."
Early said he was not aware Allen had mental health issue.
The defense asked Early if he agreed that serious mental illness and being locked in solitary confinement could impact someone's mental health, to which Early replied, "Yes."
The jury also asked Early several questions, including how long Allen was on suicide watch and what he was allowed to have in his cell. The officer replied that Allen was on suicide watch pretty much the whole time he was at the prison and had a tablet, handheld phone and a Bible in his cell.
The state asked if Allen could have extra food from the commissary, to which Early replied yes.
During the defense's redirect of Early, attorney Brad Rossi referenced the officer calling Allen "an offender."
"But he wasn't an offender," Rossi said.
Asked about suicide watch, Early testified that Allen sometimes wore a special smock for folks who were on suicide watch.
State's 34th witness, John Miller, a Westville correctional officer
The state's 34th witness, Westville correctional officer John Miller, logged Richard Allen's words and behavior while stationed outside Allen's cell.
Among the log entries presented to the jury Tuesday:
April 9, 2023
6:58 a.m. - Allen said, "I killed Abby and Libby" as he was flushing paper down the toilet.
7:04 a.m. - "He stated that the funniest joke is how he killed them, then shouted a foul word."
7:24 a.m. - "I got what I deserved for what I did and I hope I burn in hell for what I did."
7:55 a.m. - "I'm sorry for what I did for killing them, but I don't care. Kill me," Allen said, crying.
7:58 a.m. - I'm sorry I killed those kids."
Upon cross-examination by the defense, Miller described as Allen as "respectful" early in his stay at Westville. By April 2023, Miller said Allen was refusing his medication and, at some point, had a personality switch.
Rossi asks Miller about Allen saying that someone turned him in, that he killed his own family, killed his grandkids, molested his sister, sorry for everyone he killed, may have touched his daughter, and he got an erection in his sleep thinking about these things.
Allen said that "Old Bear Claw" had hypnotized him and he would pace and yell curse words.
Rossi asks if someone with serious mental illness being in solitary could make that worse. "It could," Miller answered.
The state redirected, asking Miller about Allen saying, "I only killed them to give my family more time to live" and "I'm sorry I killed those kids. I was afraid they'd say my wife told me to do it. I may have touched my daughter."
Miller said he doesn't think Allen's behavior is genuine, but instead "orchestrated and planned," as he would go from being cordial and kind and then, in a 12-hour period, Allen's behavior would change.
On redirect, the defense asked Miller if Allen ever said how he killed the girls. Miller answered no.
Asked if Miller can explain why someone would smear feces on themselves, Miller said, "I can't."
The jury then asked Miller if it would be normal to act like this if not taking medication. Miller answered, "It's possible."
State's 35th witness, Brandon Fisher, a Westville correctional officer
The state's 35th witness, Westville correctional officer Brandon Fisher worked from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. on Allen's unit. He testified about observing and logging Allen's words and behavior.
Some of the log entries introduced in Tuesday's testimony included:
April 29, 2023
6:00 p.m. - "He said he killed two girls from Delphi with a boxcutter. He stole it and left it in the CVS trash.” Said he was tired and wanted to confess.
6:30 p.m. - Allen talked about wanting to rape Abby and Libby but got scared, panicked and killed them instead.
May 18, 2023
8:15 p.m. - Allen banging head on wall. Not hard. That's one of the things he did.
On cross-examination, the defense asked Fisher about being fired for lying on a Department of Correction application, to which the state objected.
Fisher said Allen's behavior "was an act."
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi asked Fisher about police interviewing him in August 2023 about Allen's behavior. Fisher said he was never told about Allen's mental health issues and didn't know Allen's doctor, Dr. Wala.
Fisher saw Allen with feces on his face.
Fisher was reminded that in his deposition, he said, "Rick was precious cargo," meaning he was treated better than others.
Fisher laughed when he was asked if Allen told him he lost his virginity to a babysitter when he was 11. Fisher said Allen told him that.
"He told you the girls were screaming," the defense asked.
"That's correct," Fisher answered.
Fishers said other inmates yelled at Allen and told him to kill himself.
Fisher said Allen told him he was living in medieval times.
On redirect by the state, Fisher said after Allen smeared feces on his face, he said, "I won't be doing that again."
"But he did do it again!" the defense said.
The defense asked Fisher if he ever said he could tell if someone was mentally ill by looking in their eyes. Fisher said no.
The jury then asked if guards were allowed to interact with Allen. Fisher said yes. The defense points out that the warden had testified it was supposed to be observation only.
A juror also asked Fisher if he was trained to de-escalate behavior or just observe and report. Fisher said just observe and report.
State's 36th witness, Raymond Smith, a Westville correctional officer
The state's 36th witness, Westville correctional officer Raymond Smith, who worked at the facility for six years. He testified about the log he maintained on Allen's behavior.
Smith spoke to several events he logged on April 10, 2023:
3:24 a.m. - Allen says, "Kathy, I did it! I'm guilty. Run, Kathy, run! I did it."
7:55 a.m. - "I killed those two girls, so I have to kill myself."
On cross-examination, Smith said on April 10, 2023 at 2:50 a.m., Allen started singing "God Bless America." Twenty-two minutes later, at 3:12 a.m., Smith noted Allen was masturbating at his cell door, singing, "Mama, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Cowboys" and licking the window of the cell.
Minutes later, Allen returned to singing "God Bless America," and sang the song again from 4:05 a.m. until 4:11 a.m., while running in place. He also told Smith he wants to go camping with Roger and Chris, who is his best friend.
5:17 a.m. - Allen talks about his wife.
Smith described Allen as "polite, respectful" and noted that he "slept a lot."
"Other offenders would attempt to agitate him," Smith testified.
On the prosecution's redirect, Smith testified that Allen said he had sex with girls and said, "If I killed them, I killed them."
Smith also said Allen seemed to be having trouble remembering or almost saying it doesn't matter.
Smith said guards don’t have the ability to notify mental health immediately for stuff. They have a nurse that they notify first on overnights.
State's 37th witness, Jason Bedwell, a Wabash Correctional Facility officer
The state's 37th witness, and final witness called on Tuesday was Jason Bedwell, an officer at Wabash Correctional Facility during Allen's second prison hold.
Bedwell noted on Feb. 24, 2024, Allen was in his bed, crying and saying, "I'm sorry for what I did. I'm sorry for killing those girls."
Bedwell said Allen was lying in his bed, talking to himself.
Defense attorney Brad Rozzi cross-examined Bedwell, pointing out that Allen was still in solitary confinement, with no contact with other inmates.
He also pointed out that Allen was in a fetal position, facing the wall inside his cell, potentially suggesting Bedwell could not have heard his words clearly.